Re: CAD/CAM

["Arne Chr.Jorgensen" <instel-at-online.no>]

Ray Henry wrote:

> Arne
>
> Wow! You put a lot of work into your acad machine.  When you take it up
> again you better store your progress on a backup machine?  I've done the
> same thing and lost a lot of work.  Backup files are okay but there is
> nothing like seeing the stuff going on two different machines at the same
> time.
>

Well,  I didn't have time to run backup on floppy - so I stored and updated
source files on a second computer,
and run the compiled versions on  a third computer.  I am pretty sure that
there was no known virus on the system,
and I think I went away a few minutes, while it was updating files on the
second computer.  Anyway,  later my working disk started to rev up and down,
would not keep a constant speed. Then it died.  When I checked the backup on
the second computer, - everything looked okay. The file names and everything
- but when I looked at the contents, everything was a total mess.  I tried to
save any readable sector, - but there was not many left. Well this is
relative, because I had thousand of sectors with no link. The file allocation
tables was a total mess.  The sectors was just readable with special programs,
normal programs could not read or write to it anymore.  So here is what I
think happened: the disk started to malfunction while it was updating the
second computer.  This data was because of this, nonsense.  On the third
computer I just had some rewritten compiled code under test.  And my whole
system had grown so large that I could not afford printouts.  So, I had lost
the source !!!  - in total I had stored different kind of work over a period
of 7 years !  But I had only worked about 3 on this system I mentioned.  Most
was written in Modula and Pascal, now everything is changed. Linux and C,
etc..  I do have
a lot to learn.

TclVogle:

I have looked at it, but I am new to Vogle and Tcl, and unix.  So how to
change the code from a sparcstation to linux, and do a tcl/tk upgrade is
difficult for me to do, and it would take to much time.  Someone that know
Tcl, and are familiar with "Make" and compilations should take a look at it.
( I have to learn a lot of all this before I can do any productive thing , and
I don't  see when I would have time for it. )  Is there anyone who could just
take a short look at it. ( the make files etc. for tclVogel ? )

Vogle:

Just take a search for Vogle at altavista,  and you will find many sites that
has it. Run the examples, - and you would get a
good feel of what it would do.  For any engraving, I do think it will supply a
large set of fonts. - I just came to think about this, as this thing could be
interesting for some applications. It also have drivers for hpgl and other
stuff.







>  I might be able to write a RS274NGC
> interface that feeds it.

Good !

> Then we'd have 3d backplotting.  If it works with
> Linux, we'd also have a good start to your basic cad stuff.
>

Yeas,  and  Matt has files from TDCAD in tcl, that is such a system, with a
DXF to input reader. All I think is
needed is just to change the name of the circle, arc, line, - commands,  and
call the g_circle, g_arc, g_line  instead. That is
use the tclvogel commands instead.  Then you would also have a speed
benefit.

>
> Are there links where I can learn more.

Here is a link to tclvogel.

 ftp://ftp.neosoft.com/languages/tcl/sorted/packages-7.6/devel/

I also think you will find Vogle at the same place. This is just to download
and run on linux, - so what is missing, is
and update of tclVogle,  so it will bind to a newer release of tcl/tk.
I don't think there is any problem to run it under Linux,  except  changing  a
signal name. ( You know these SIGUP, SIGKILL, etc.  well sparcstations have a
few more, that don't exist on linux )

My problem is as I said, - I don't know the tcl/tk language well enough to see
and know what commands needs to be updated from the old tcl it used, to a
current version.

> Or do you want to work up a
> summary of of it's capabilities and the Linux problems first?
>

Don't quite understand what you mean. Vogle works - just try it.  The problem
is that tclVogle

( just a normal tcl/tk - but it uses Vogle instead of Xlib as tcl/tk normally
do.  The problem is to do the "m akefiles" for a newer tcl/tk and compile it.
I am so sorry, - that I am this stupid ! But I didn't understand enough of the
tcl language and C to do it right - else I would have it running by now.
I repeat, tclVogle is nothing but a renamed tcl/tk interpreter, that uses the
equal canvas drawing commands, except it uses Vogle graphics functions instead
of Xlib functions. So tclVogle is not much more than a Makefile -  it is not
that easy to openly show the world how stupid you are !, -  you know :)

Vogle works, tcl/tk works, - it is just to bind them together, - but I have
not been lucky with my attempts to change the make files.

( hmm.... come to think of it, - maybe we should put up some reward, make a
competition ? Who will be the first to get this to compile ? )

MRSEV:
-------

Well I just found it the other day,  you find out about it here:

 http://www.isd.mel.nist.gov/personnel/kramer/publications.html

You may understand it better than what I did,  -  but as far I can tell,  it
will scan a CAD drawing, and generate Gcode for
it.  If it finds a circle on one side of the block, and not on the other
side,  - it will scan the geometric shape until it finds out how deep this
hole should be. Then generate the Gcode to drill this hole.  It is a
"machining shape recognizer + automatic Gcode generator."  It would probably
be able to process a geometric figure in Varkon, and process the part, machine
it if you like !  It will even give cost estimates etc. and can analyze the
best options to machine a part.  This is what I did in Acad, - but NIST have
done it much, - much smarter.  Just imagine what such a combination could do
!!  You would not fine anything on the marked that You could afford doing such
a thing !!!!
This is why I have repeatedly talked about Varkon, because this is a
parametric CAD system with capabilities that is far ahead of anything else I
have found in CAD for Linux as open source.  Run the example codes in Varkon,
but don't judge the first examples,  try the "fighter" example .  It has
rendering, Nurbs and a lot of functions.  It would beat Autocad many times
over. Why ?  Because you have a nice job setup for making it into any special
design system, easy access to the geometric database,  and the source code for
the whole system.  When I "hacked" the Acad system, added external geometric
drivers, etc. - I could never get to these levels.  But it is different in how
you operate and design things.  At first glance,  you may not understand that
this in fact is more power full than general "normal" Cad systems.

People judge to easy on appearance - and they look at the GUI. Oh this looks
nice !  While it can be just an empty "shell".
Microsoft way of doing things :)   Microsoft sold Windows before they had
written anything that worked,  they had just made a nice graphical  display, -
while Digital and others had it working !

Same thing now.  Several Cad programs with a nice GUI,  but with very limited
capabilities. Here you have a professional system, they now make look a bit
nicer.

Please - correct me if I am wrong !

//ARNE